Tuesday, July 21, 2009

#38: Making Fun of Saint Mary’s Girls (and then dating them)

Notre Dame Students, both male and female, have an incredibly complex relationship with the students of the school across the street: Saint Mary’s College. This relationship can be marked by a wide range of emotions including jealousy, hate, sarcasm, friendship, and love. In other words; it is akin to a typical marriage.

Notre Dame Students love to make fun of Saint Mary’s girls. While this might happen infrequently in person, Notre Dame Students will constantly make jokes about their sister school when there are no Belles around. They will write letters to The Observer declaring the school’s inferiority and its student’s unintelligence. They will perform skits in the Keenan Revue about Saint Mary’s Girls being sluts. Notre Dame Men will make fun of individuals behind their backs, and Notre Dame Women might even make fun of groups to their faces.

The fact of the matter is that it is relatively easy to make fun of Saint Mary’s Students as the school is essentially one group of 1600 Marys, Katies, and Megans that all major in Nursing or Elementary Education*. While the olden days might have required Saint Mary’s to counter the All-Male ND, the modern Co-Ed Notre Dame has no use for Saint Mary’s College.

Or so a Notre Dame Woman would want you to think.

Notre Dame Women are most to blame for the complex relationship with Saint Mary’s Students because they publicly and privately have the most nasty things to say about them. The women from both schools can’t possibly be friends with each other because of the irreconcilable differences caused by Notre Dame Women recklessly throwing around words like slut and stupid in reference to their sister school. These girls do this not because they believe these things, but because of childish jealousy.

Notre Dame Women are jealous of Saint Mary’s Students because the students at the all-girls school across the street are typically more awesome than their counterparts at Notre Dame**. Saint Mary’s Students are more fun than Notre Dame girls. They go out to more bars and parties. They don’t spend most of their hours in the library (does Saint Mary’s even have a library?). They won’t tell you when they have an Organic Chemistry test (see #29), and they bizarrely care more about Notre Dame Football than Notre Dame girls.

Because of this, as much as they like to make fun of Saint Mary’s girls, Notre Dame guys also like to date them, and they date them quite frequently.

*I probably just lost 5 friends right there.

** I know I just lost 7 friends and 1 sister on that one.

Full Disclosure: I currently have 1 SMC drinking mug, 1 SMC pennant, 1 deck of SMC playing cards, and 1 SMC T-Shirt that I wear frequently. So yes, I unapologetically love Saint Mary’s.

76 comments:

  1. I wonder what amazing group of SMChicks gave you the SMC Beer Mug.

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  2. :-) truer words were never spoken. and as my dad says, "SMC chicks didn't steal ND men from ND women. ND women stole ND men from you! You were there first."

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  3. I just love it. Thank you.
    -SMC chick happily married to her Domer

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  4. Thank you. The truth comes out. Wear the SMC shirt with pride! And Katie, your dad is one smart man!
    -SMC alumnae

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  5. Interesting... all the SMC Chicks that I know (and shockingly am friends with) just went to SMC because they were rejected from ND. All the elementary education ND girls I know just took their classes over at SMC and then got the superior degree from ND.

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  6. Is this anonymous posting a joke? Did Bob just post this to prove his point? I can't imagine any self-respecting Belle would be friends with someone as condescending as that.

    I won't deny there are definitely girls who choose SMC because ND was out of reach either academically or on a purely financial level. But the fellow Belles I knew who applied to ND rejected their ND acceptances and scholarship packages for what they saw as a better opportunity across the street.

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  7. As a SMC Alumna, I feel I must say something in reply to Mr./Ms. Anonymous, who posted right before me. I did not apply to Notre Dame. It wasn't even an option for me. I wanted a liberal arts education in a smaller setting, which is why I chose SMC. It's the best decision I have ever made. I also have many female friends from ND, and I have to say I am blessed to have them in my life. When all is said and done, we are all part of one great community of gifted and faith-filled people. It's really too bad you can't get that giant gold ring dislodged from your ass and just lighten up a bit.

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  8. Bobert, you are so lucky I still platonically love you after your cracks about my name and major. You know you only wish you were cool enough to go to Saint Mary's and spend your days sporting french cross adorned sportswear while strolling on The Avenue.

    Also, I'm pretty sure I platonically love my fellow Alumna up there. Good call. And there is no such thing as a "superior degree", my dear. A bachelor's degree is just a bachelor's degree when you grow up and enter the real world.

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  9. damn if thats true I should have gone to FSU

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  10. ooohhh SMC Chicks are apparently touchy as well...

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  11. How is a degree "superior" when the student has to attend a majority of his/her classes at a completely different school to earn said degree? Isn't ND's complete lack of an Education department and their willingness to work in tandem with SMC a sign that we are, in fact, a good school? Ok, so we don't have to pay $40K a year for a special seal to appear on our diploma. Like, Katie C. said, BAs are all the same in the Real World.

    And we aren't touchy. We're proud of our institution and the opportunities it has given us. Belles are sisters, mothers, CEOs, judges, the list goes on. So maybe when we get pigeon-holed as sluts and idiots we do get a little offended. Besides, I have a feeling you get the same way when someone says ND girls are frumpy, catty, and have no social skills.

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  12. Why do some Domers find it so hard to believe that there are people who see Saint Mary's as a first choice instead of a backup? I know it's blasphemy, but I'm sure there are BC students who aren't there just because they got rejected from ND either. A good number of people on both sides of the street respect both institutions, knowing, for instance, the stellar reputation of SMC's education program or the dedication to social justice at ND. I am extremely grateful that I knew a lot of them but it pains me to see the biases that are still there.

    Being proud of attending Saint Mary's isn't being "touchy" but listening to 4 years of some people's superiority complexes is sure to put a sour taste on any comment.

    To take from Katie C, much platonic love to all my fellow alums for their posts - here's to hoping for better relations for the incoming classes!

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  13. I am neither a Notre Dame graduate nor a St. Mary's graduate; I found this blog through a friend's Facebook page. I attended a wonderful university located just outside of Chicago. With that said, what university/college you gain your bachelor's degree from DOES matter, especially in this economy. The Fortune 100 company I work for won't even look at applicants that aren't graduates of one of it's "strategic recruiting schools". If I were posed with two resumes, one from a St. Mary's graduate and one from a Notre Dame graduate, and they were generally similar with regards to extracurriculars and classes, etc., I would 99% of the time choose the candidate who came from the more prestigious, more selective, more challenging school. In this case, that school would be Notre Dame. I'm just sayin'.

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  14. Show me a SMC grad who's a CEO and I'll show you...

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    1. Actually my sister's commencement speaker, a Saint Mary's grad, is a current CEO of Xerox.

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    2. None of the current or past CEOs of Xerox are St. Mary's graduates, just sayin.

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  15. I didn't even know about ND until I went to St. Mary's.

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  16. Please read the below link for just a sample of how successful a SMC grad can be:

    http://www3.saintmarys.edu/alumnae-success

    That's right. Congresswomen, Superior Judges, Board Chairwomen, etc. Do your research before you make such a stupid blanket statement. My sister, SMC class of '93 is President of Dancegear.com. Believe it or not, we ARE successful.

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  17. I went to SMC as a backup to ND. I knew that I would go to Saint Mary's for one year and then transfer over. However, after a year at Saint Mary's, I had no desire to transfer. After a lifelong dream of being a student of Notre Dame, I gave it up for the wonderful classes, professers, campus, and friendships. Having just graduated, I would give ANYTHING to be back at SMC.

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  18. After my years at ND, I discovered there are two basic types of girls at Saint Mary's: those who truly want to be at Saint Mary's and those who pretend they go to ND. The girls that are at Saint Mary's because they want to be there are wonderful girls, and I am proud to have them as friends. But the girls who pretend they go to ND are a different story. I have heard them complain about the Alama Mater, tell people they actually go to ND, and behave horribly towards my fellow ND women. Those are the girls that perpetuate the sterotype of Saint Mary's girls and foster animosity. These are not the smart, successful women that the College places on the alumni page, but these are the girls that color my interactions with Saint Mary's.

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  19. To Anonymous at 9:37 this morning…

    On behalf of all Belles, I’m sorry for the behavior you encountered from fellow alums who pretended to go to ND. They were an embarrassment to the college and, for whatever it’s worth, as annoying to us as they were to you. Possibly more so for making us look bad by comparison! I’d imagine it’s akin to the highly inebriated ND woman I ran into at a dorm party who said she was so embarrassed by her actions that she was going to tell everyone she went to Saint Mary’s (trust me, I laugh in retrospect). I have wonderful friends and family members who attended ND and I wouldn’t think to judge them – or the rest of the student body – for anomalies like that and hope you’ll realize there are far more of us proud to be Belles than pretending to be Domers.

    As to the earlier comment regarding the weight of your alma mater on your resume: I work at a staffing agency and will fully admit that for entry-level, fresh out of college positions, the ND name will stand out. That being said, the ND name doesn’t take any required competency tests or complete your interviews and after the first couple years, your experience and references are weighted far more heavily than your education. Your degree, wherever it’s from, is only a starting block. There are alums from both sides of the street that are making their alma maters extremely proud and others that are completely wasting their educations.

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  20. I got accepted to both Notre Dame and Saint Mary's and am going to be honest, I chose Saint Mary's and got a full ride. Now you guys might be saying, "how stupid can you be," but I am glad I made the decision that I did. People and women especially, should grow up and respect both schools since they are affiliated with each other and quit complaining. I have many friends at both schools, including women at Notre Dame. We are all going to graduate with a college degree, and after the first job they don't care where you went to school.

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  21. All I can say is . . . " The Chick Came First".

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  22. As a Belle I can proudly say SMC has two things ND will never have: a renowned MRS degree program and a football team undefeated since 1844!


    If you were able to relax and laugh about that and you ever find yourself on the east coast, let's meet up for drinks. I don't give a damn which school you went to.

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  23. Can't we just all be friends?? I'm a proud SMC chick with a major and a minor there, as well as a ND student (YES I SAID IT!) with a Chinese major and belonging to about 3 bands (including marching!). I have walked past people on game day in my uniform and plaid, and heard people make fun of SMC chicks without knowing, and SMC's make fun of me because of my uniform. All I can do is kindly correct them and point out their mistakes for their stereotypes. In band, we are all the same. We march under the same cadence and wear, PROUDLY, the same uniform.
    I have so much respect for both schools, and I have both rings (#37). I have best friends on both sides of the street, as well as a boyfriend whom I love and adore at ND. The schools are amazing, and, as much as people don't want to admit it, we rely on each other. So please, everyone, lets just respect our friends, family and our sibling schools. No more animosity!

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  24. SMC does indeed have a library, btw :)

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  25. I dont understand why Notre Dame is so touchy about the SMC/ND family. Maybe if they were as confident in their natural abilities as the name of their Alma Mater, it wouldn't be a problem. Saint Mary's women are proud of their heritage, character and school; which are all benefits of going to a small, liberal arts college. Notre Dame is Notre Dame. Saint Mary's is Saint Mary's. What else is there to say? Maybe Notre Dame should see this discussion as a focus on their gender relations and a refection of the types of women they produce. That being ones that are elitist, judgmental and, obviously threatened, by their big sisters. Shout out to Katie C. Hey girl hey.

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  26. I'm with 05 - let's harken back to the days of old when we were all united against common foes: parietals, the legal drinking age, the closing of the Boat and creepers at the backer, god rest its sticky-floored soul...

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  27. SMC girls care about ND football more than ND girls? funny cause the 2 years which I have had a bunch of SMC chicks next to me at football games, they either didn't know which team we were (no lie, first game one season, a bunch of SMC girls asked me if we were the blue team or the white team and they were dead serious), or arrived late/left early almost every game. Others had no clue who any of the players were (eg. thinking Demetrius Jones had returned to ND in November of 2007 cause they saw a Black QB, who was in fact Darrin Bragg).

    I agree with anonymous above... there are 2 types of SMC girls, those who go to SMC because of how it is, and those who pretend to go to ND. and the one kind I have nothing but respect for. The others, they cause the bad reputation.

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  28. To the person who commented on how one BA is equal to any other: are you serious?! Let's be honest - everyone knows that ND is harder than SMC. There is absolutely no question. One of my female friends took a class at SMC and said that she was asked to work in a group to do a book report over the course of the semester, as if reading more than one book over the course of four months would be too difficult. Freaking ridiculous. As a male student at ND, I have to stick up for my female classmates here because I know that on average, they are much more intelligent and work so much harder.

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  29. let's face it, we all know SMC is much harder than ND. My roommate and her boyfriend were taking the exact same chemistry class, one at SMC, One at ND, and he could not help her with homework because he had no idea what the material was, it was more advanced than what he was doing. Besides, ND has all those dumb athletes so they have to dumb-down their classes!

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  30. You shouldn't make blanket statements on how hard or easy each school is when anyone could tell you that it varies on your majors, minors, classes or even professors.

    With each of you going to the opposite school and only being briefly exposed to a small glimpse of the other (with you both only being able to draw on OTHER PEOPLE's experiences of taking ONE CLASS at the opposite school), it's ridiculous to make generalizations like that.

    In reality, SMC and ND have hard classes as well as easy ones and bright students as well as the not so bright ones.

    Other than to get upset at eachother and increase said jealousy and hate characterizing the SMC/ND relationship, is there even a point in debating this?

    Needing a pat on the back for going to the "harder" of the two schools does nothing to help build the relationship between them, it helps to destroy it and makes you both look petty.

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  31. I knew a girl who went to Duke for her freshman year and then transferred to Hope in Michigan to study to be nurse. The point of this story is that where you went to college is a poor indicator of how smart you are or how hard you work. People pick their colleges based on more than what the "best" school was that they could get into. You really find who is intelligent and works hard based on what they do after college anyway.

    I know people want to feel good about themselves and their own accomplishments (like getting into Notre Dame) but there has to better way to pat yourself on the back.

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  32. Nothing better than a good Viewpoint (blogpoint?) war... and I thought with graduation I left the debate behind. Ha!

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  33. It's not even about the fact that some SMC girls did/could get into ND and blah blah blah. It's about the actual college curriculum and the fact that the majority of ND's classes are far more demanding, leaving its students with less free time to go out. Meanwhile, SMC girls (or as my friends there have told me) have very little work and thus have more time to party, giving them a more fun/sociable reputation.

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    1. Not even remotely true. Did you take classes at SMC to verify this?

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  34. Yeah Kyle. Wish it were true, but once you get them going...Here's the problem with biases - they tend to run so deep that the implication that there might be reason in another argument threatens people's very existences, so they fight to the death for what they've believed. Example: the back and forth between the two anonymous posters yesterday...

    Seriously guys: they're both stellar Catholic institutions and you're fighting like heathens. Glad to see the lessons stuck.

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  35. In response to April's post:
    Why do we find it so hard to believe that SMC is a 2nd choice school? Try to picture this one for a second ... Notre Dame doesn't exist. What do you have? You have a school smaller than many high schools. in SOUTH BEND. with no males (unless you want to count Holy Cross guys, but lets be realistic. a very small minority hangs with them anyways now). no sporting events, unless watching women's MIAA conference events is thrilling to you. no football saturdays. no march madness. no opportunity to take courses at the #18th ranked best university in America by US News and World Report.

    My point is without Notre Dame there, there is nothing appealing about an all girls school stuck in the middle of one of the shittiest towns in the nation. SMC women at this point strike back with "We wanted a smaller liberal arts school and it has an AMAZING education." Guess what. US News and World Report ranked you guys #104. There are many small liberal arts schools in America ranked far above Saint Mary's, who offer scholarships just like SMC. So there goes that argument. And the real thriller is most of them have men there too. Saint Mary's girls are fine with SMC being all girls because they can get their fix of men across the street. If ND wasn't there, I can't imagine ANY 18-22 year old female feeling so passionately going to a school with 1600 other females, and as for guys, I guess you would have the townies at the Linebacker. Take your pick!

    So maybe these girls didn't want to go to Notre Dame. But they sure as hell would not want to go to SMC without Notre Dame being there. As for the brainiac who said a BA is a BA in the real world. You are truly a dumbass. Are you aware of the current unemployment situation in the United States? Notre Dame's networking opportunities are firstly, much greater than SMC's, by mere numbers of alumni. Think of how many times you've told people you go to Saint Mary's (assuming you aren't from the immediate area), and they ask you, "Oh where is that?". Now think how many people who reply they go to Notre Dame have to deal with people asking that question. None. The Notre Dame name, along with the quality of its education gives ND students an obvious edge. Yes, you need to interview well, have good references, ect, and while where you did your undergraduate work does not account for the entire reason you might get a job (especially after your first or second job), it sure as hell puts you a notch above those at less renowned and praised schools. Just look at the mere numbers. Notre Dame's acceptance rate: 24.5%. Saint Mary's: 81.3%.

    No, not all SMC chicks are stupid. Some might be just as smart or if not smarter than some of the ND students I've met. But those are the exceptions. SMC is simply easier to get into than ND. Fact. And while you do get a good education at SMC, its not on the same tier as you would get at Notre Dame, so stop saying it is. We’re not saying your school is a joke. But stop saying its on the same level as ours.

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  36. I just graduated from Notre Dame and the classes I took, for the most part, were incredibly easy. If you want to make generalizations about the difficulty of course loads, it would be better to look at majors, not so much schools. I have an Arts and Letters degree, so I know that my GPA is inflated. And while I would agree that proximity to Notre Dame is an important factor for some potential students, if ND wasn't right across the street, I think people would still go to SMC. 104 is a great ranking, and just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean that there aren't girls out there who want to go to an all girls school. Lots of girls go to other all-girls schools that aren't within walking distance to Notre Dame

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  37. Well said, Anonymous 5:38.

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  38. Holy crap, Bob, you got more ND/SMC animosity brewing here than any viewpoint letters in the 2008-2009 school year. The Observer should have had you write more.

    Also, SMC Chicks, why do you feel the need to hit reply to the very few people on here who said it's a second rate school. We know better, and we probably won't convince them, so it's pointless to try.

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  39. these comments just satisfied all of my Viewpoint War longings that came from being abroad for a semester (I missed Melissa Buddy!) and then having to sit through Obama stuff instead of the ND/SMC war. Thank you, Bob, for providing a battleground.

    Actually, thank you too, random anonymous troll #1, for being a troll. Where would we be without people who leave insidious comments and then lurk to laugh at people's reactions?

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  40. i'm an ND girl and i love my SMC friends and also frequently wear SMC shirts on campus (mostly because they're awesome). i get some pretty weird looks which is kind of hilarious. i'm not gonna lie when i first came to ND i was one of the anti-SMC girls. by the end, most of my girl friends were SMC chicks :)

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  41. Say what you want about Saint Mary's but unless you are a "SMC Chick", you'll never understand why some women choose to go there.

    I am a chemistry major from Michigan who was accepted to Hope College, Kalamazoo College, Michigan, and ND. Saint Mary's gave me the most financial aid. I have 1 (male) cousin at ND and one at SMC. I have French Canadian women in my family who were Holy Cross nuns, one who was at Notre Dame in the late 1800's.

    (Try to explain to your maternal grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins in Galway, Ireland why a university with a French name, founded by French priests, calls itself "Fighting Irish" and has a student dressed as a leprechaun dance around at football games!)

    I like SMC because of the small class sizes, easy access to my instructors, no TA's, not having to worry about some immature ND boys sizing up my ass as I ascend staircases, or rate me as I walk across campus.

    I like that I have access to ND ameneties like the Grotto and the Basilica at SMC prices.

    Yes, there are some girls at SMC whose goal is to marry a 'ND man' but I am sure there are many ND girls who hope to do so as well.

    In closing, I will share what my friends at Michigan tease me with: Notre Dame---take away the Four Horsemen, the Gipper, Touchdown Jesus,
    football teams, and of course, Rudy, and what do you have?---the University of Detroit!

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  42. From the website: http://www3.saintmarys.edu/alumnae-success

    Alumna/Bestselling Author Introduces New Triology Set

    February 5, 2009- Adriana Trigiani ’81, the award-winning playwright, television writer, and documentary filmmaker and bestselling author of the Big Stone Gap trilogy, recently introduced a new triology set. The first book, “Very Valentine,” available now in bookstores and online, is about Valentine Roncalli and her work in the family business, a custom wedding shoe business in Greenwich Village. Trigiani describes the book on YouTube.

    Trigiani received a bachelor's degree from Saint Mary's College and then moved to New York to become a playwright. She founded an all-female comedy troupe and was a television writer and producer. She lives in New York with her husband and daughter.

    triology? is that even a word?

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  43. WELL SAID, anonymous 5:38 on 7/30/09.

    If the belles are so proud to attend and graduate from Saint Mary's, why are they content to let it read that they graduated from Notre Dame on facebook? Just food for thought- if you're all so proud and content with your degree, why don't you petition facebook to change your status to a graduate/attendee of SMC, not ND?

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  44. Good point, Anonymous 12:57 9/24. If you all don't change it, I'll just assume you are a) too embarrassed by your own alma mater or b) too pathetic that you have to cling on to our's WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN GO HERE.

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  45. "You may have to be smart to get into Notre Dame, but you have to be smart to get out of St. Mary's"

    just my tidbit of info that I heard the other day..i love SMC!! I would honestly still be here if Notre Dame didn't exist b/c it is just that awesome!...sure having ND there is a plus, but not a necessity..there are like 4 other colleges around here...duuurr haha. but no I love it here!! Go Belles!!

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  46. As a proud Belle, I must say that Saint Mary's was my first, and only, choice for a college education. Coming from a family with a Domer, I knew full well that ND was a viable option for me. (I was Valedictorian of my high school and had the alumni connection.) However, I CHOSE Saint Mary's for several reasons; the small classes, tight-knit community, and highly accredited professors. We might not have the "Notre Dame" label, but at least I'm someplace where I'm HAPPY. Also, from what I've heard, some of our classes are quite comparable to ND. We do have the girls who Co-Ex constantly, and pretend that they go to ND. Their problem? Either they're really smart, but didn't have the alumni connection, or they're really dumb and still didn't have the alumni connection. Although I'm not biased, I've seen the same thing at ND...the pretty girls usually have a dad/other relative that went to ND, so their application got placed in a special pile. Tradition is a huge part of both school and, if you have the alumni connection, it makes you look a lot better. I detest those at ND who think all of us Smickers are just a bunch of brainless twats who couldn't get into the "better school." Many of us CHOSE to go here, knowing full well that we could make the best of both worlds. (I really don't mean to sound like Miley Cyrus...) When I walk on ND's campus, as long as I'm not sporting Belle-wear, no one realizes that I don't actually take classes there. To the certain ladies of ND, take heed: props to you for picking the big, well-known school, but not not all of us have dads that will write out a check every semester. We're getting a world-class education on this side of 933, and you wouldn't believe the number of contacts I've met who know the Saint Mary's name. When you graduate as a whole with your large class, I will graduate as an individual with knowledge of the truth: the grass is NOT always greener on the other side.

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  47. ANONYMOUS 12:57,

    Saint Mary's girls DO, in fact, have status as Saint Mary's students/alumnae on Facebook. Originally, Facebook grouped Saint Mary's in with Notre Dame. In 2004, Facebook started up with only the Ivy League schools and Notre Dame included. Saint Mary's was lumped in because of our great connection to your school (whether you like it or not). I joined shortly after, and was listed under Notre Dame, even though I had to use my Saint Mary's email address to sign up. Saint Mary's girls did eventually petition when Facebook grew and still did not separate us. As a result, a Saint Mary's network was formed, which I quickly joined. Now, I believe, any new Saint Mary's girl is not automatically included in the Notre Dame network.

    Angie
    SMC '07

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  48. If they are no longer automatically included in the ND facebook network, then why are there so many SMC girls who refuse to change their Network from ND to SMC? Clearly, these girls are living vicariously through ND and want the facebook world to think they are a product of a university they don't really go to. I looked at SMC for college along with ND and ultimately couldn't stomach applying to SMC because it just wasn't for me and the thought of these rivalries would drive me nuts as a student there (although of course, the current students at the time assured me there was no such thing) Ultimately I chose another well know private school with many of the same principles of ND. I didn't want to be considered a stepchild. I wanted my OWN university, with coeds and their own reputable athletic teams. For those who chose St. Mary's as their 1st choice or it had a specific major you were looking for, etc. etc. That's fine. It's these girls that chose it because they didn't get into ND and wanted to feel like they were still part of it by putting on this facade that piss me off. Those are the ones that would have just been better off going elsewhere.

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  49. People really need to go up & stop acting so immature.

    There will be always "dumb" girls at SMC, yes. There are "dumb" girls at every school, every college in America (even ND). However, you will for the most part encounter intelligent, creative, and intellectual SMC girls. There are SMC girls who are only attending SMC because they failed to get into ND, or if they did, were unable to make it work financially. There are SMC girls who got into ND, and could make it work; however, she decided to attend SMC instead of ND (*gasp!*). There are SMC girls who had no desire to ever attend ND, regardless of if ND was financially or academically attainable.

    Yes. There are "fat & ugly" girls at SMC. There are "fat & ugly" girls at ND. There are "fat & ugly" girls on every single college/university campus in America, regardless of location, academia, promximity to other colleges. SMC and ND are no different.

    Yes. There are "slutty/skanky/promiscuous" girls at SMC. There are "slutty/skanky/promiscuous" girls at ND. There are "slutty/skanky/promiscuous" girls on every single college/university campus is America, regardless of location, academia, proximity to other colleges. SMC & ND are no different.

    Yes. There are plenty of SMC women who cling to ND, claiming they attend there, when they clearly do not. They are bitter because they were unable, for wahtever reason, to attend ND.

    However, that is not every SMC woman. Any intelligent, moderatley educated, critical thinker would realize that just because he or she has encountered SOME SMC women like that, that not every SMC Belle is the same way. A couple dozen or so of SMC women who pretend they go to ND that you may have encountered is clearly not a good representation of the entire SMC student body. It just goes to show you how ignorance and unable to think for yourself can lead to grossly inaccurate assumptions.

    There will be easy classes at SMC, where you can coast. There will be easy classes at ND, where you can coast. There will always be the classes/professors that gain the rep as "easy, little to no work" on every college campus.

    There will be extremely difficult classes at SMC. There will be extremely difficult classes at ND. Every campus has the "impossible" classes, and ND and SMC are not special for having some.

    And no, SMC women are not all "poor innocent victims". Many SMC Belles sterotype ND students "as preppy, snobby, know-it-alls who only go to ND because daddy and mommy know how to mail ND checks." They encounter some ND men who are judgmental, crude, and arrogant and declare all ND men "jerks." The ND girls are "jealous bitches of the fact ND guys love SMC girls more". However, the degree of inaccurate sterotypes is far more insulting to the SMC women than the ND students.

    ND is a world-class institution of learning. There is no denying the success it brings to graduates throughout their lives. It is a very prestigious and respected University and only a select few are able to call it "home". However, there is a poor reflection of the school and the ND name when some ND students are seen constantly name calling, finger pointing, bragging, and other childlike behaviors.

    I realize that there are plenty of ND studnets who have no problem with SMC. They do not agree with the SMC sterotypes or see why SMC must be made fun of so much and without such base for mocking. Therefore, there are lots and lots of SMC and ND friendships that form during the schooling years in the Bend, and stay strong years after graduation.

    As I said at the beginning, people need to grow up. Money(for both schools are extrememly expensive, one a little more than the other)may be able to buy you a wonderful education, but if the education doesn't teach you to think for yourself, get to know the individual, and not make bias jundgments, then is it really worth it?

    Go Irish. Go Belles.

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  50. "go up" ???

    SMC girl

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  51. "SMC is simply easier to get into than Notre Dame. Fact."

    Well, of course it is. Saint Mary's is recruiting to only 50% of the population. Then there's the horror many teenage girls might automatically feel at the idea of attending a women's college. Of course the acceptance rate is going to be higher... especailly considering the fact that Saint Mary's doesn't have a free freaking four-hour commercial six Saturdays a year. Are the schools on equal footing? No, but just because Saint Mary's doesn't have ND's financial resources doens't mean it's a hole.

    I think the reason so many Notre Dame students are touchy on this matter is that this school got to where it is via football. Oh, yeah, you've got ND-branded waffle irons, a nice big engineering building, and pretty, shiny computer labs (and I don't begrudge the students these things). But where'd the seed money for that come from? Really stellar breakthroughs in molecular biology during the Hoover Administration? Um... no.

    So the next time you pass by that bust of Rockne at The Rock, give him an extra thank-you pat. His winning record built the high horse you're currently sitting on.

    Oh, and also, you might want to work on making sure you're writing in complete sentences before deriding the supposed deficits of another college.

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  52. The whole SMC/ND feud is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with education or intelligence, its all about the boys. The ND girls perpetuate it because they are threatened by the SMC girls coming across the street to hang out with the ND boys.

    I was accepted to both schools, and attended SMC for a nursing degree. Some day ND will step out of the dark ages and start a nursing program of their own. My only reason for applying to ND was to shut up those catty ND girls who love to use the "you weren't smart enough to get into ND" line. Several of my best friends are ND girls, (they aren't all obsessed with hating on SMC).

    As far as being successful and the prestige of an ND degree...several of those ND girls are still looking for jobs in their field, 3 years after graduation. My nursing degree provided me with a very nice pool of offers for well paying employment before I even stepped off campus. Those people who believe an ND diploma guarantees you success in the real world need to go talk to some of those graduates from the past few years who are still looking for employment in their respective fields. If the jobs aren't there, it doesn't matter where you went to school.

    Those people who continue to spread the hate (on both sides of the street) need to grow up and realize that once you graduate, no one cares where your degree came from, as long as you're capable of doing the job. Stop wasting the best years of your life on some stupid, pointless feud.

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  53. This blog is so stupid; I do not attend either college/university but just by reading the comments people have written regarding them is hilarious. Who cares?! Worry about yourself and your future and let everyone else live their own lives. College is short, enjoy it. Don't spend the short time you have there invested in such a childish feud.

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  54. As a SMC'er, the time spent with professors was exceptionally formative. I poured late hours into studying at the library (unfortunately fellow students can attest to nauseating long researched presentations), yet was glad that the institution that many relatives attended and operated afforded opportunities across the street. It was the rude attitude of brief encounters at Notre Dame that kept me from pursuing coursework there, as the kind or unbiased Domer seemed more like the exception. You really taught me prejudice and discrimination, thank you.

    Several fellow alumnae in my class alone are completing fellowships in medicine and surgery, masters and doctorates in "core" sciences, completing their coursework to be nurse practitioners, and practice as accountants, lawyers, judges, congresswomen, social workers, physical therapists, nurses, businesswomen, and educators. We are proud of our "brother" school, and wish some of you would stop thinking we are searching for an ND man. I married someone from "outside the family" and could not be happier or prouder of him, his economics degree from Colorado University, or his service in the coast guard.

    However, poor behavior in first year orientations by resident hall leadership AND bullying behavior by some Notre Dame women (not all - I have female ND friends thank you) certainly lowered my esteem for Notre Dame. I am certainly glad for my sisters who shouted with 1600 SAT's that they would never attend ND and chose SMC over swim scholarships at Notre Dame. Of course, the Notre Dame admission coordinators would never mention that and parental pressure does not help in any situation. I am glad to have supported sisters transfer to schools without this dynamic like Smith.

    Notre Dame men are not held harmless from playing one group of women whether it's Pangborn v. Cavanaugh or ND v. SMC. It's reductionist group think that we all come to realize is pointless. Both ND and SMC need change.

    Notre Dame women don't have life easy, as they feel the need to succeed with the perception of an unsupportive environment. I do not envy them, but poor behavior is not excusable.

    So when you're needing to go for surgery, do you want someone who does the job well or those who carry these attitudes into their practice. It's so defeatist on all ends. Date who you want. Take the classes where you want. Be proud of who you are.

    The last time I checked - Notre Dame didn't have a medical school any more than Saint Mary's. If you take a moment to consider you'll have another college alumna as a responsible practitioner across several medical fields, you would take an active interest in all public and catholic education much more seriously.

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  55. Anonymous at 12:57

    Because for the longest time we had to petition for SMC to be added to the list. The only option was Notre Dame. Trust me, that identification got changed the moment they opened a SMC status.

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  56. At least we (SMC) didn't have to content with rampant epidemics of eating disorders. Thank you also, swimmers, who kept our spirits up by running through campus during finals week.

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  57. I am another extremely intelligent, top of my high school class woman who chose SMC and didn't even bother to apply to ND. All through elementary school and high school, I was always known as the "smart" girl. What a lesson in humility it was to finally arrive at my dream school, Saint Mary's, and find out that I must continually defend my choice of school, and my intelligence, to certain ND students I saw every day in marching band. It is a fact that it is much easier to get into SMC than ND. There are many reasons for this, one of which is that the idea of attending an all-women school is not very attractive to many girls. So yes, SMC accepts a high percentage of applicants mainly because our applicant pool is not very large. BUT...just because it is easy to get in to SMC does NOT mean it is easy to succeed. SMC is extremely academically rigorous; it is by no means an "easy" school and I am insulted by anyone who says it is. Just as an example, I know two SMC women personally who were just accepted into graduate programs at Harvard.

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  58. Mom of future freshman writes.

    My daughter is VERY intelligent and qualifies to attend many top schools. However, those school are ridiculously expensive! We want her to graduate with little to no loans if possible. Fact St. Mary's is cheaper then ND. Quite frankly if I can afford to send her to ND I'll send her to my alma mater first NU.

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  59. how is this rando girls school relevant to notre dame. they are no more important than a large group of townies.

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  60. I just stumbled across this while searching for info on Notre Dame for my daughter. She has been accepted to Notre Dame, St. Mary's, Boston College, Marquette, and Georgetown (we love Catholic education in this family). My husband and I are both graduates of Notre Dame with MBA's from Northwestern and Uof Chicago. We both work in the corporate world in Chicago. While the Notre Dame name is useful in getting doors open, and we prefer recruiting at our alumni, the bottom line for us is grades and the reputation of those who came before you. St. Mary's has a very small alumni network in comparison, however I can assure you that those alumni from St. Mary's have a stellar reputation in the corporate world in Chicago. We never recruit at Notre Dame without also going to St. Mary's. My experience has shown me that the St. Mary's business grad has excellent communication skills, strong writing abilities (much more than her Notre Dame peers), and the ability to rise quickly and stand out amoung her peers in the business world. The only reason we don't recruit as many bus grads from St. Mary's is just a matter of numbers. There just aren't enough of them.
    My daughter plans on going on to med school. I'd prefer the smaller school for her, the small classes, no TA's with poor English skills, professors who know her name and know her as a person. She is attracted currently to the Notre Dame name, but I hope she comes around and realizes the amazing opportunity it would be to be educated at St. Mary's.
    On a side note, after I received my Northwestern MBA I started my job in a Big 8 accounting firm (when there was a big 8). My immediate supervisor came from St. Mary's with no MBA. I had an attitude of superiority, afterall I was from Notre Dame AND Northwestern and she was just a "dumb girl" from SMC. She quickly put me in my place and I was smart enough to learn as much as a I could from her and made her my mentor. She rose to partner in that firm faster than anyone else before her and would humble most of you with her accomplishments. I realized I just had the more expensive degree, not the better one...

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    1. To this respectful and well-reasoning ND grad and Mom of a potential SMC/ND/Georgetown/BC undergrad. We were probably at SMC-ND at the same time. My Dad graduated from ND and I could sing the fight song before I could talk, and my Aunt attended SMC. So I interviewed at both SMC and ND before making my choice. At the time ND had only been coed for about 5 years, so it was fairly misogynistic for ND and SMC girls alike.
      The way my multiple majors were taught at SMC was richer, more complex, and more demanding than at ND. So I decided to attend SMC and never even applied to ND after interviewing at both schools. I did the ND Angers program, where my two best girlfriends were ND girls. After Angers, I reconsidered ND to double check if it might be the stronger school for me. I had A's in my SMC & ND courses alike. Again, I regarded SMC as the stronger school, in my own 3 majors at least.
      I went on to attend the #1 doctoral program in my field at Georgetown (on a full fellowship), and did my post doc at Stanford Medical School (paid a salary by Stanford to do so). Afterwards I won 3 Fulbright scholarships (doctoral and professor levels). I currently teach multiple ND grads at the medical school where I serve on faculty. I always tell them I am a "SMC chick" and they know I love ND football, so I never compare or contrast the two.

      It is sad to read this website decades after my time at SMC-ND and see that relations between the two schools remain as complex as ever. It still echoes of the misogyny I sensed during my time in the early years after ND went coed (and the women admitted at that time had far higher SAT scores than the men because it was much more competitive for them to get in). However, now it sounds like the internecine ND-SMC savageries focus more on woman-on-woman critiques. Boys may be boys (v. both of us!), but ladies of ND AND SMC, do yourselves a favor and don't get caught up in tearing one another down. There are too many other people in your lives who will try to do that, so there is no need to help them!
      P.S. During my time, SMC's tuition was more expensive, so we were considered the "rich" girls. It is all relative.

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  61. Question for the anonymous mother and anyone else! I am stuck between St. Mary's and Saint Louis University. I am a current senior and do not know what to do...I plan on going to optometry school, but I am not sure how it is viewed or ranked next to St. Mary's..any ideas???

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  62. I am a SMC grad and it pains me to have to correct a Domer's grammar, but it's such a glaring error, I must. "Student's unintelligence" should be "students' unintelligence" --DUH!

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  63. The three way I had over at Opus with a couple of really horny SMC chicks straight out the back door of the Backer is my favorite Belle memory. The mumbles of excitement from one while she perfromed oral pleasure and the squeals of delight from the other when my thumb went up her butt perfectly demonstrates the intellect and refinement of the SMC young lady. That one tops the lay I scored over the toilet in the bell tower rest room with a SMC swimmer. The position was inhuman. Rah, Rah SMiCkers!!

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  64. In your dreams.....

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  65. Saint Mary's women will always be smarter, classier and more beautiful than anyone across the street.
    I'm sorry you are SO jealous and pathetic that you have to waste your time calling us slutty and unintelligent. If you are so intelligent and so superior, why do you waste SO much time trying to put us down? We do not waste our time insulting you because we are secure,confident and proud of our college, clearly you are not.

    I'd also like to point out SMC girls can take ANY class they want at ND at any time without special permission or applying, although SMC professors often discourage it because they lack the rigor of SMC courses. So think about that next time you insult our intelligence.

    So basically SMC wins because we come out on top in the end. Sorry ND guys want to marry us because we are intelligent, beautiful, classy and well rounded. It's not our fault we are the whole package.

    So while I am curling up next to my ND educated fiance with a Tiffany's engagement ring on my left hand, you can continue to be jealous and pathetic. I really could care less.

    -Sorry I am NOT sorry for being a SMC chick :)

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  66. I am an SMC grad and also serve on the recruiting committee at my firm. We love going to SMC and ND. We determine interviews based on GPA first, then we look at ECs, work experience, unique qualities. With all things equal, we never give preference to which school you are at. I can tell you this, the interview will weed out all of you who think you don't need to do anything except graduate from ND. Don't get me wrong, we interview a large number of ND grads, and they are usually outstanding candidates, but so are the SMC grads with similar GPAs. A 3.8 candidate from SMC will definitely interest me more than the 3.4 from ND, unless that ND candidate has done something very impressive (other than go to ND). It's all about the grades and how you present yourself in the interview! We recruit heavily at UIUC and Michigan due to our alumni network. The candidates from those schools are usually not as strong as ND/SMC. There is a considerable lack of oral/written communication skills and lack of connection to community compared to the grads coming out of South Bend!

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  67. except that SMC classes are way easier b/c they're at SMC. if they were smart enough they would go to ND. Btw, what is appealing for a girl to want to go to SMC, anyway? I am genuinely curious.

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  68. You, ND Snotty girls,,If you want to go into teaching while at ND guess where have to attend most of your classes.....surprise surprise..ST. MARYS...

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  69. This debate is so old....let it freaking go.

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  70. 9:42, you are fooling yourself if you think they are easier across the board. You should stop talking; you sound like an idiot.

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  71. This is PATHETIC! I laugh to what's written here. Fighting for things that are so stupid, useless, unintelligent. So...where do you guys come from? Notre Dame? St Mary's? I tell you what, I come Holy Cross and I don't have to worry about things that do not help me to grow as an individual. And I do not need to be "book smart" to succeed in life. blahhh once again, pathetic!

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